The State of Windows Phone

I’ve just published an in-depth report on the state of Windows Phone as an operating system (and, by implication, Microsoft’s mobile phone business which makes up around 95% of sales on the platform). You can download the whole report for free here, but I wanted to provide a brief summary for Tech.pinions readers as well. It fits with some of the other writing I’ve done here on Microsoft over the last few months (e.g. here, here, here, here and here).

My reasons for writing a report about Windows Phone are simple: so much of the coverage of the platform simply writes it off as a hopeless case, oversimplifying and exaggerating the problems without recognizing there is growth there and it’s so strategically important to Microsoft at this point that the company will continue to invest. As such, the purpose of my report is not to put another nail in Windows Phone’s coffin, but to offer a nuanced analysis of what ails the platform and what Microsoft can do to make it better.

Windows Phone’s challenges

In all this, I’m under no illusion that Windows Phone isn’t struggling. Among the major issues are:

  • Though shipments are growing, market share is actually falling, because iOS and Android shipments are growing more quickly. As such, even though Windows Phone needs to be catching up, it’s actually falling behind. Shipments also aren’t growing rapidly and even suffered a brief dip recently.
  • There continues to be a vicious circle between the lack of developer appeal and the lack of user appeal, with no obvious way to break it. Despite all the high profile coverage of the smaller number of apps on Windows Phone (and Microsoft’s frequent defense to such charges on the basis of quality), Windows Phone has a serious quality as well as quantity problem.
  • Windows Phone is becoming, increasingly, a low end operating system. I cite exclusive AdDuplex, Counterpoint and Kantar Worldpanel data which shows more and more of Windows Phone sales are in the lower price brackets. This is damaging because Windows Phone now exhibits both much smaller scale than either Android or iOS and a base that’s less likely to spend on apps than iOS, leaving it without much appeal for developers.

Solutions for getting Windows Phone going again

The good news in all this is Microsoft appears to recognize the challenges and is actively seeking to address them. However, the challenge is that many of the things it’s doing are either going to make little difference and, in some cases, may even be counterproductive. I’ve talked here about the mistakes it risks making with Windows 10 in an effort to give Windows Phone a boost, but the recent doubling down on the low end is another worrying sign. Microsoft instead needs to:

  • Invest in creating and marketing a true flagship for the platform. Windows Phone has never had a single flagship to rival the iPhone, the Galaxy S5 or comparable phones from other vendors and it badly needs one. Given Microsoft Mobile’s dominance of Windows Phone, this phone needs to be a Lumia, it needs to be more competitive, and it needs to be sold across carriers, with none of the market-limiting exclusives of the past. Microsoft can afford to market the device heavily on its own. Unless Windows Phone claims a stake at the high end of the market, it risks becoming exclusively a low end carrier.
  • Establish clearer differentiators for Windows Phone as a platform, especially among high end users. Microsoft has struggled from the beginning to articulate why Windows Phone is better than the two established platforms for mainstream users, and it’s no closer today to figuring out what that is. The answer likely is in ties to Microsoft services, photography and other areas, but even Microsoft doesn’t really seem to know, and this needs to change.
  • Do more to bridge “the app gap” and that starts with recognition that simply paying for the initial port of an app to Windows Phone isn’t enough. This is the single greatest factor holding the platform back today and, unless Microsoft fixes it, it will never attract significant numbers of high end users.

Prospects for Windows Phone

Can all this turn Windows Phone around? I think there are good precedents in Xbox and Microsoft’s Online Services division to suggest Microsoft will be willing to stick with the platform for the long haul, even as it struggles in the short to medium term. Strategically, Microsoft needs a mobile platform which serves more than just a thin slice of the market, because its two major competitors – Apple and Google – own the other two platforms and both are reinforcing their internal ecosystem, which will damage Microsoft’s ability to participate with cross-platform services alone. In addition, Microsoft’s single biggest advantage is its existing base in PCs, but as that base stagnates and falls even further behind smartphones in total size, mobile only becomes ever more important for Microsoft. But significant changes are required if the platform is to succeed and Microsoft’s current strategy doesn’t appear to be on the right path.

Published by

Jan Dawson

Jan Dawson is Founder and Chief Analyst at Jackdaw Research, a technology research and consulting firm focused on consumer technology. During his sixteen years as a technology analyst, Jan has covered everything from DSL to LTE, and from policy and regulation to smartphones and tablets. As such, he brings a unique perspective to the consumer technology space, pulling together insights on communications and content services, device hardware and software, and online services to provide big-picture market analysis and strategic advice to his clients. Jan has worked with many of the world’s largest operators, device and infrastructure vendors, online service providers and others to shape their strategies and help them understand the market. Prior to founding Jackdaw, Jan worked at Ovum for a number of years, most recently as Chief Telecoms Analyst, responsible for Ovum’s telecoms research agenda globally.

1,501 thoughts on “The State of Windows Phone”

  1. Having a windows phone now after years of Android I have to say a lot of the WP stigma is highly inflated. The biggest trouble I had with apps was realizing I could not use Google services. Once I figured out I didn’t actually need Google services, my experience was so much better. Google does a really good job with a walled garden, so much so that you don’t realize you’ve boxed yourself in.

    Microsoft is a colossus of a company, they will continue throwing money at WP until it succeeds and fortunately for the users, it will make the platform that much better.

    1. I agree with you that the sigma is inflated. However it’s the perception that matters and it’s not going to be enough to continuously throw money at the problem. They can’t make a phone that is as good as or marginally better than the current devices. It’s the same problem the Amazon Fire phone has. In order to crack into the market, you have to be noticeably better. Money and just as good aren’t good enough.

      1. There are significant deal killers on each one though. I’m convinced that part of Android’s success is precisely because it’s not Apple, and vice verse.

    2. The Google thing is a one-sided affair. Microsoft tried to get Google to make a YouTube app, and they refused, citing market share (though we know it’s because they are just being selfish with their services). Microsoft then offered to make an app themselves, then Google refused. Microsoft did it anyway, and Google threatened to sue. Google then threw a bunch of irrational development requirements onto Microsoft’s lap (greater than the ones Google itself adhered to in development of its own YouTube apps).

      Meanwhile, Microsoft has openly (somewhat) shared its services with competing platforms, despite getting nothing back in return (minus more money to possibly fuel WP development on their end). They’ve offered incentives to devs, and it’s not brought many things to the platform. I’ve lived just fine with their current stable of apps with nothing to really complain about. The only app I really miss from Android is Trillian, and IM+ is a good-enough replacement to where I just don’t care.

      1. Hah: Google tangled up Microsoft because they can: they have no interest in putting Microsoft anywhere close to competing with its own Android partners.

        Microsoft, of course, has done the same over the years, but the tables are turned today. The action is a measure of how Google KNOWS cutting YouTube views from blocking WinPhone is trivial, whereas helping them get back into the mobile game would be crazy. Remember, that Rubin’s and Gutra’s “a world where one company controlled the internet” was Microsoft; Google bought and developed Android to keep Microsoft from locking THEM out of mobile.

        1. 1. Well, except the part where Microsoft DOES publish their own apps on iOS and Android (because it’s profitable, obviously).

          2. Google isn’t cutting YouTube out at all. The mobile site is there, and third-party YouTube apps on Windows Phone blow anything Google’s developed for the service out of the water.

          3. All that last part tells me is that Google’s a hypocritical business, and far from the benevolent savior people treat it as. They didn’t want to feel shut out of mobile, and called Microsoft the big, bad wolf? Well, now they’re trying to tear down Bing and Windows Phone to be that same big, band wolf. I mean, for all my moral qualms about every major business, Google is right there near the top of the list. I mean, a company built on the idea of mining and selling your personal information? They’re Facebook with a search engine.

        2. well lets be honetst all companies do the same thing apple google Microsoft all of them so its like apples for apples, I used google back in the day cause they had a good and fair busness model but when google was bought out well you can see what happened, youtube got worste, google + got pushed,. Another good example ia android control centre, both apple and Microsoft riped that one off android lol. All companies are in the game for 1 reason making money so if you really think google are rose smelling hippies good luck and watch out lol. All I care about is the best product. I loved my iphones but when that got boring I moved to windows, I was scared caus eof all the bashing, but hell its by far the best modile experience I have ever had on 8.1 . Google need to be careful cause if they do keep doing their dodgy practices then the governments will esyly step in and stop the monopoly. I don’t really care, I have a google email account and you tube but if it keeps going and not offering a fair multi platform experience with those then ill be leavening google. After all theres is many options and it only takes a short time for people to change. Remember my space? Facebook doesn’t 🙂 I currently have 2 third party youtube apps both are superior to anything I ever used on google I also have goole on my phone for searching but since cortana I really haven’t used google on my phone to search, bing is slowly wining me over on the phone.

      2. I love windows but when you make a app that bypasses googles adverts and also allows copying I can fully understand googles position.

    3. As someone stated below, throwing money at it is not going to change the state of Windows Phone. They did that with the Zune and now its dead. I still own a Zune HD and its awesome. Shame it took them too long to get it right….and that seems to be the way Windows Phone is heading.

      How can MS turn Windows phone around. No easy answers and to be honest with you, they should look at what is happening with the Surface. Many will have opinions as to why the Surface is doing well. Its real simple though many may disagree. Tablets are not productive for business. Its main uses are for entertainment. Many tried with the Ipad/Galaxy/Nexus tabs, adding keyboards but its lame for work. Laptops are dying because they are too big and bulky but the Surface hit the sweet spot. Its not a tablet and was trying to hard to be one. Once MS realize that the Surface is a laptop and market it as such, people (business) realize this is how I can get work done. Stop following Apple trying to look cool for college kids. College kids want jobs and if businesses are using it they will too in college.

      The Surface to a dying laptop market gave it life. Its what Apple did with the Ipod. Took a dying music model and gave it life. Once Apple attained success it created a bridge from the Ipod to the Iphone. Then the bridge to the Ipad. Apple has been stuck here and in many ways their new bridge will be wearables like the Iwatch.

      If MS was smart they would realize that they have a huge market that Apple and Google still have not made a huge enough dent and that’s BUSINESS….In most businesses, the office phone is big business and big money yet its in such a need of innovation. Though most are VOIP for businesses it requires quite a bit. We are currently moving our office of 200 people and setting up the phone system in the new building is big money. This is where Windows phone should be looking. My business phone should be integrated seamlessly into my Office 365.

      Here’s a few area that would be awesome for Windows Phone. Apple has been advertising it lately but I’ve been saying it for a few years. I should be able to make a call from my PC to anyone in or out of the office. It should include video (aka face time) if I choose to or not. My Windows Phone could be a two in one phone with two numbers on one phone. One is my work number and the other my personal number both on the same phone. Once I get into the office with my phone it automatically sync with my PC and/or Surface so I don’t need to use it unless I want to talk privately. Whatever I do at work is all on my Windows Phone so that when I leave I can pull it all up….even on my Surface.

      Overall if MS want people to use Windows phone they need to offer deals to business like buy Surfaces and get free Windows Phones for your office. BTW, the Surface mini will be a mistake unless it is catering to certain businesses like UPS/FedEx/Restaurants that require signatures and no keyboards. Your Surface mini should be your Windows Phone and it should look like a Galaxy Note 4 with a stylus. I know it seems outdated but that Nextel walkie talkie feature was great for business. Make it cool again.

      Anyways you get the point. Stop imitating and start innovating in business. Leave Apple and Google to the entertainment and games. Get all the work related apps make sure they work the best on the Windows Phone and Surface.

      1. Great ideas. I think a TON of money spent wisely, not $400 million to NFL, but for direct immediate action could really add millions of new high end users . Their recent efforts at throwing money around haven’t been successful but I don’t think it’s impossible to do. My ideas above are crazier I think. 🙂

      2. Agreed. I will never understand why Microsoft ignored the enterprise vector advantage, and attempted to go after the consumer market. It’s mind boggling. If they had not crippled the original Surface RT by not allowing to to join domains, they would have sold millions of them to enterprise. It’s secure, it’s locked down, and it ran Office. It was a no-brainer. But no, they wanted to force an upsell to the Pro model. They made the same stupid mistake with Windows Phone. It could have been the defacto business/enterprise phone. But no, they wanted to go after the consumer market. How Microsoft’s board allowed Ballmer to throw away the colossal advantages and head start Microsoft had in regards to enterprise is inconceivable. Personally, I think it’s too late. Microsoft’s best play is what they’re doing now: write software for all platforms, and make Windows Phone the best low end mobile experience to get the phones into as many hands as possible. I don’t think even that is going to save them in the consumer market.

        1. Agreed. However, I still think they have a chance in business. As I’ve stated, there is a great opportunity to innovate business phones.

        2. na phones are growing slowly but they are growing 10s of millions aint exactly losing even if its not to the same quantity as the others, To me windows is by far a superior experience to any phone I have ever used and ive used all the iphones. Have you actually used a windows 8.1 phone for more that a few hours?

          1. Posting from a Lumia 822 I’ve owned for a year and a half. So yeah, I’ve used one. A lot.

      3. yeh they need to do something like make the phones accessible to buy. Microsoft biggest problem is on the retail front for all their products, cause their products are very good. But they are also fighting incredibly bad pr, the kind of pr mistakes that will be taught in courses for years to come, very basic mistakes lol. But there’s no way windows phone cant succeed its a simply to good a device and a brilliant alternative to the competition, and really even though in Microsoft apple and android terms windows phone same are poor, truth is they are still selling 10s of millions and in some of the more obscure markets they have a lead and second place, so they are no way near over lol.

        1. I agree that MS is fighting bad PR that they themselves have created. Look no further than the Xbox 1. Bad PR was not the problem with Zune or Windows Phone. Those products were extremely late to market and though they eventually work very well after several versions, they still aren’t superior to the competition in terms of functionality. There isn’t a compelling enough reason to leave the competition and buy a Window phone….for now. Maybe Windows 10 will change that but I have my doubts if they continue to focus less on business.

          I disagree that MS biggest problem as a company is on retail front. Their biggest problem was the leadership of Balmer. Now that he is gone MS is finally starting to make some smart moves as a company. Products like, Vista, Xbox 360, Windows 8, Xbox1, were rushed to market and all had serious issues with the consumers. They fixed most of them but that’s the reason for the justified bad PR. They had better not make the same mistake with Windows 10. Their products need to be awesome from day one launch. Not after updates and revisions.

  2. The people I know who got an MS phone did so because they’re a bit afraid of the Android and iOS app jungle, and/or because they wanted 0-effort Exchange integration. They do kinda like not having that much choice. But, they do regret missing out on some apps (market-specific ones, ie regional public transport…) and suffering some decidedly second-rate ones.

    I sometimes wonder if there is an opportunity to do a mobile ecosystem the other way around, entirely curator-driven.
    – How many apps (assuming those are best-of-class or near enough) does an ecosystem need to address 99% of the needs of 80% of the market ? I’m the heaviest user I know, and I have 49 apps installed, a good 10 of them because I can’t remove them, another good 10 for testing purposes or forgotten crud. Say, 300. It sounds entirely within MS’s means to port, or finance porting, 300 apps. And make them nice, with a night mode, relevant Live Tiles, …
    – Wouldn’t playing the security card to the hilt strike a powerful chord (and be a memorable mixed metaphor), both for the entreprise market and the consumer one ? “All apps on our market have either been written by ourselves or at our behest”

    1. It’s no secret that I loathe curation, other than that imposed by the owner of the device. You did however make me re-think that position.

      If MS codes things themselves, or commissions others to code them, without offering an API to the general community at all, is a truer, deeper, “vertical integration” than what iOS does.

      What’s worse, not being invited to the party, or getting dressed, showing up, and being turned away? Both approaches are elitist, but one is worse than the other.

      1. I’m not saying they should close it up. But since nobody’s interested in it, they need to go 1st-party in populating it with the basics, done right.

      2. Also, curation can really mean several things. The way Apple do it, letting in lots of crap but banning competitors, feels wrong. The way Android does it, letting in anything except the most detectable malware, feels insufficient, even if the option to load from other sources is nice.
        I think curation should be voluntary on both sides, ie the devs should have a choice to get a seal of approval (for quality, safety,…) and the users (or their admins) should have a choice to stay with approved apps, or stray into the jungle.

    2. The problem here is twofold: one, it’s not the same 49 or 300 or whatever for everyone, and it’s not the same 49 or 300 or whatever today and tomorrow. The landscape is constantly shifting, and what’s must-have today may be replaced by something new next week, next month, or next year. So the challenge isn’t porting over 300 apps, but continuing to get new apps ported over rapidly. The other problem is that Microsoft has provided some financing for a one-off port, but doesn’t support ongoing development – for a number of developers I’ve spoken to, that’s the killer. It costs at least as much to maintain and improve an app over time as it does to port it, but that effort doesn’t yet pay off on Windows Phone. All this (and obviously much more) is in the report, with lots of data behind it.

      1. What is your best guess as to how many apps cover 99% of the usage of 80% of the customers ? Un-emphasizing that 20% of complicated users really pares things down, I think.

        I don’t see what choice MS have:
        – they don’t have the critical mass for apps to spontaneously flourish
        – they’re as, if not more, overwhelmed with crap apps as iOS and Android

        They can go on bribing lotsa devs, any dev, to throw a badly ported, unsupported app their way, and turn a blind eye to all the crap apps to drive their total up. Or they can adopt key apps, get a quality port and ongoing support. That’s a lot more expensive, so they’ll have to focus on fewer apps. And getting rid of crap apps is probably a wise move.

        1. There’s been some good Comscore data recently on the most-used apps and so on. Very few are used by over 50% of the population, meaning that almost all apps have only minority appeal, and it takes a very large number of apps to get to the list necessary to satisfy a large number of users. I don’t know if you’ve read the report yet, but I do go into a lot of detail on this topic.

          The problem is that it becomes a pattern – some hot new app launches and Windows Phone doesn’t have it, and doesn’t get it for a year or more in many cases. The Windows Phone store is filled with clones and substitutes which in some cases help the situation but in many cases just cause user frustration.

          I also think it’s dangerous to approach this in a box-checking fashion – i.e. “email app – check!”, “Twitter app – check!”. This isn’t about checking boxes, it’s about being able to use the same specific app as your friends and family members on other platforms. And that’s where Windows Phone really falls short in many cases.

          1. Thank you. Core apps across a billion users is a very large number. Given that WP is a tiny platform with poor opportunities for monetization it’s a massive task to even scratch the surface for MS.

        1. So, a store that sells only Coke and Diet Pepsi, both over the “best by” dates on the cans, is going to do well next to the high-volume convenience store with a range of fresh drinks, including the Diet Coke, Mountain Dew and others that a minority find no good substitutes for.

          Even though there’s no cost advantage. But they have a great colorful logo on the store!

          Uh huh.

          1. What’s your advice ? That they should keep selling watered-down Coke and Pepsi in leaky cans for the majority, alongside Mountain Doh, Fantuh and Sprute to cater to those minorities ?
            Neither situation is ideal, but one sounds distinctly worse than the other. Especially if you look at the “best by” date on those cans.

          2. Well, because *I* am sensible, and Nadella is also sensible and not committed to making Ballmer look good, I “suggest” what I imagine he is already working on.

            Which is: to find a new product category that Microsoft can use to spearhead the revival of WinPhone. They’d keep offering WinPhone while this effort is underway, but not burn a lot of shareholder cash in trying to compete on the same terms as Apple and Google have established. Not that disruptive innovation is the only way, but Sun-Tsu wouldn’t recommend you attack the enemy on his territory, at a time of his greatest strength, over territory he MUST hold, using weapons that he built and honed.

            That new category could be wearables (although the current Microsoft Band would need many iterations) but more likely, methinks, Internet of Things, coordinated by a baby home computer that would be compatible with any internet device, but which Microsoft could use as a way of getting into every home and business. There are also opportunities in businesses (iBeacon systems; POS/square/ms-pay systems) but they’d better be built to be best-in-class, industry-leading, rather than a me-too to Apple or Google.

            Also, they also have a natural market in Enterprise Mobile Management.

            Basically, the advice that Jobs gave to his soon-to-be-next employer/employees, as he himself implemented it.

            But certainly NOT, hitting their head against the wall harder with the same strategy that has extended their functional absence from the mobile business.

          3. The article is about Windows Phone, not about other markets. I’m sure MS could get less behind, maybe even grab an early lead, in other nascent markets, even though that’s never been their forte. But unless they plan to give up on phones, in which case the Nokia acquisition makes utterly no sense and wearables, payment, tracking, IoT/Home automation… will have to link up with iOS and Android devices, they still need to build up Windows Phone to something relevant.
            MS is currently in the position of having to provide first-rate support for iOS and Android because MS-less Mobile was threatening their Entreprise ecosystem (Exchange, Office, Sharepoint…). And they’re not even getting first-rate support from Apple and Google in exchange (Youtube, iTunes…)
            I think we both agree that “me too” (as in what MS are currently doing: lots of apps, only of low quality and with bad follow-up) doesn’t look good. I don’t think hoping to pull a rabbit out of a hat in a very loosely related new market will do much for phones, or is very realistic. That leaves: fixing Windows Phone.
            I’m sure leveraging MS’s admin and dev ecosystems will help, as will improving that OS, which is already mostly OK. But even if IT wants Windows phones, MS still need to reach a point where users are at least OK with that. That means having the required apps. My point is that “the required apps” are not that many, and need be of good quality, as opposed to the current approach of “lots of crap”.

    3. “Users don’t want 1,000 mail apps, they want one good one.”

      This flies in the face of the innovative nature of the technology business because rather than being told that this product/service is the best we get a choice. That sea of choice will invariably equate to lots of duds and false starts but if the apps are good they’ll remain above the fray and land a dedicated user base.

      It’s why WhatsApp is so popular amongst a insurmountable amount of messaging apps, why Instagram remains the top photo-sharing app and so on.

      1. Indeed.
        And for geeks like me, choice is a good thing per se, and we’ll play around with new apps for the sake of it.
        But in my experience, Real People ™ just want one good enough app. Not one non-geek around me has ever changed email app for example. They couldn’t if they wanted too, my trying to explain that IMAP syncs while POP doesn’t (I know… in practice it doesn’t, in theory it could) usually gets blank stares… Messaging is a bit of an edge case because it’s 99% network effects and the kids are driving those. Assuming, again, that the app is good enough, having a single messaging app might even be an advantage.. I personally have 6, that’s a pain.. I don’t really care what each does, it’s about who’s on what…

        1. “Not one non-geek around me has ever changed email app…”

          Either they don’t have a choice because they own a Windows Phone or they lack the will and/or knowledge to see if better options exist. So that’s no excuse not to have options just because some people choose not to take advantage of them.

          My guess is most people don’t realize they can change the color temperature, backlight, motion reduction and other settings on their TV. They just plug it in and rest on the couch. Does that mean because a vast majority of users that don’t use the features mean TV manufacturers shouldn’t bother making those features available?!

          Obviously that’s a rhetorical question but when you say that none of your friends have ever changed their default mail app means absolutely nothing if they don’t even bother to search for an alternative.

          $10 says the average user has issues with the default mail app but don’t bother saying anything and just accept that it’s supposed to work that way. I have some experience with this (I’ve worked in retail) and at the end of the day they just don’t care.

  3. I always carry two phones. Currently, it’s the Note4 and a Nokia 1520.

    While I also am not expecting a rapid miracle resurgence of Windows Phones, I’m wondering whether the relative success of the Surface Pro 3 will positively influence an uptick. Having a common codebase would also help.
    As far as market share vs. profit share arguments go, they are clearly far behind on both. But pride is at stake, and they have a new “mobile first/cloud first” philosophy. As long as the absolute numbers are increasing, more profit (less loss) is being realized. IMO of the consumer cloud offerings I see on the market today MS is the superior one, that even includes Google’s.

    1. What relatively success of the Surface Pro 3? I mean, it’s successful in that it’s not massively losing money at the moment and is finally selling in somewhat respectable number, but it’s not successful when you consider the tablet industry or mobile industry, which are selling millions of units. It could marginally be considered a successful PC but even there it’s barely making a dent and that market is dwarfed by the phone market. Even if every person who bought a SP3 bought a Windows Phone, you’d be looking at best at a couple million. Microsoft needs to do way better than that to crack the phone market.

      1. “What relatively success of the Surface Pro 3?”
        a) It’s profitable.
        b) It’s both technical and market progress over it’s predecessors.
        c) It’s a nice device.
        Beyond that, if you think I will be put in the position of defending MS, you have the wrong person.

        1. it’s not profitable yet. It generated positive *gross* profits last quarter for the first time, but that’s before all the marketing and other expenses, which will have made it significantly unprofitable still.

          1. I never understood gross profit. I don’t understand much of what passes for math in the financial world. Profit = sales – expenses. Still, farther up I did leave room for less loss. Which, if we’re going to be technical, is higher profit (less negative). 😉

      2. One place I’d say Surface Pro 3 is “successful” over Windows Phone is in marketing. I seem to see a commercial on every channel at all times of the day everyday for the Surface. Windows Phone only seemed to get commercials when a new device came out, and the commercial would run for a few weeks before disappearing. They definitely need to market it year round.

  4. i think Microsoft need to become a Cloud integrated hardware player and try to take over the business world with their surface line and pay developers to make compatible App with their common codebase for business user who would gladly pay for it.

    Apple and Android are very weak in the business world, developers other than gaming one are all loosing money making Free App for the Play Store and Apple store hence focusing on business that would pay a lot of money for licencing App make more strategic sense.

    1. They won’t. Ballmer’s hubris compelled him to attempt to beat Apple at their own game, and it blew up in his face. There’s still some of that attitude going on in Redmond. As you suggest, the smart move would be to take advantage of their enterpise presence. Make an uncrippled Surface RT for enterprise drones, and make a completely secure, functional enterprise phone. But that won’t happen. Because Microsoft’s management are morons.

  5. One good reason for someone to buy a Microsoft phone would be because they like the Microsoft mobile ecosystem. By ecosystem I mean Microsoft mail, contacts, files, maps, search, documents, and syncing across devices. Windows phones would be a step up for people who use the MS ecosystem on Apple and Google devices.

    In other words, improving Microsoft’s software and services on Apple and Google phones will eventually make Windows phones more popular.

    1. “…improving Microsoft’s software and services on Apple and Google phones will eventually make Windows phones more popular.”

      That makes no sense. If I can get the best of Microsoft by using my iPhone or Android then why would I bother dropping my current device for a Windows Phone? That’s like saying the coupons from Wal-Mart that are redeemable at Target will make people want to shop at the Wal-Mart that’s 20 miles away from the Target that’s 2 miles away. If there’s no need to go out of my way then I won’t.

      What’s worse is that Microsoft is making their goods and services better on iOS and Android than they are their own hardware, which is even less incentive to invest in their hardware. Case in point: Microsoft released a touch-friendly version of Word on iOS and Android and Windows Phone users STILL don’t have that or have an inferior version.

      1. There are millions of people who simply do not want Apple and Android. They want and deserve an alternative. MS wants to give it to them. It’s a shame they’ve failed so far.

        1. So Redmond’s challenge is to turn this collection of fringe dissatisfied people first into a serious niche, that they can hold and expand, then use as a base for conquering the next frontier.

          It’s a difficult challenge, no? Some really like Live Tiles for a usage metaphor; others have a deep distrust of Apple going back to the 80s; others want to identify with a business brand and have given up on BlackBerry. Etc. Windows Phone needs to be multiple products to appeal to all these people.

          And when they DO commit to a product definition, where does it take them? They have had some good success in low-end devices in lower-income nations. But with Nokia reasserting its brand on tablets, Microsoft must move quickly to assert its ownership of the brand. Further, even if they DO succeed with those lines, the results do nothing for the business-focused types in the US & Europe. It does nothing for the bottom line; it does little or nothing for developers’ incentives to build products aimed to higher-margin customers.

          Turning refuseniks into niches is possible if there’s a core ethos that the company shares with users—just ask the folks at Apple. But Microsoft has spent the last 2+ decades as a universal, default choice, and will have to reinvent itself to become the lean-n-mean firm rebuilding for its great second act.

        2. Trouble is, there are many different, individually small reasons NOT to like a product as much as some hypothetically perfect product, but that doesn’t mean Microsoft can design a product that is only a collection of different features, and it’ll be sufficiently coherent and obvious so that people won’t find it WORSE than the ones that aren’t good enough.

          So far, Microsoft seems to have tried two approaches: the “Bring Your Day Job Into Your Fun/Personal/Friends’ Lives”—as blatantly unlikely a reason to buy a phone as I can imagine—and the “We Do That, Too, And Without [A]’s Logo On It,” also a theme with very limited appeal.

          And that’s not just marketing, it’s the features that address Jobs To Be Done that nobody wants to do.

      2. Office on Windows Phone 8+ is great and from what I’ve seen, it is noticeably better than what is on Android. Haven’t seen it on iOS outside of reviews and so forth. They are bringing those services to other platforms because that is inherently a differentiator.

        More so, if you have an iPhone and a SP3, you are still a Microsoft customer. There will still be differentiators for using their kernel across all of your devices but as a Microsoft customer, users for other device platforms should be able to benefit from using Microsoft developed and supported software and services across all of their devices as well.

      3. The writing’s on the wall. Nadella has realized Windows Phone is a lost cause, but he has to make an effort after Ballmer’s colossally stupid acquisition of Nokia. Expect that to be sold off (hopefully back to Nokia,) and the plug pulled on Windows Phone in the next year, or two. Windows 10 will not save them. Their survival depends on what they do best: writing operating system and productivity software.

    2. “One good reason for someone to buy a Microsoft phone would be because they like the Microsoft mobile ecosystem.”

      I’ve been using MS’ new Acompli on iOS. It is very impressive. So much so, I think Acompli plus other best in class “enterprise” apps (including Office) will be MS’ new strategic target: An enterprise ecosystem functionally and pixelly identical across iOS and Android.

      MS would of course call it “Office and Sons for Mobility ™”!

      Eventually someone will look around and notice that WP has died.

  6. You are forgetting that Microsoft Owns Android and Apple in reality. They get royalties from both. Its all Microsoft, so no worries. Building Windows Phones just differentiates them from Patent Trolls. But anyway you slice it Windows Phone rocks, and I’ve enjoyed being on the cutting age of phones for 4 years now.

      1. He’s talking about Microsoft’s “patent” shenanigans. Microsoft literally makes more money off Google’s royalty patent payments from each Android device sold than they do from their own product. And they wonder why Google won’t work with them.

  7. Of all the mistakes Microsoft has made over the years, and there’s been a lot, their shift from software-focused enterprise company to “let’s be like Apple” is probably the worst decision of them all.

    Becoming a hardware + software company and building retail stores to match their closest rival hasn’t helped much as Google waves from the mountain peak Microsoft once occupied.

    Microsoft is a very lucrative company so any talk of their complete demise is a misnomer but their ability to match or surpass Apple or Google is most assuredly never going to happen.

      1. So in your eyes making a $7.2 billion investment in Nokia then laying off 18,000 of those employees while also securing -4% revenue growth in the mobile market all equal to a company with value. Interesting.

        Based on a report from January of this year iOS dominated mobile ad traffic by nearly 45% with Android close behind at 37%. Windows Phone, however, accounted for just a tick below half a percent (.49% to be exact). Even the Blackberry, a corpse in the mobile market, had 2% mobile ad traffic.

        All I’m saying is that Microsoft has an enormous amount of ground to make up for but they’re consistently late on most everything and continue to follow everyone else’s lead rather than setting their own path. Again, they’re too big to fail entirely but let’s not pretend that they’re in a leading position. Not even close. They’ve lost most consumers, Google’s pushing them (and Apple) out of education with enterprise already making the switch to MacBook Airs, iPads and iPhones.


        1. Last time I checked, Windows OS still has bigger market share than both OSX and Chrome OS combined. Yes the mobile division still hasn’t found its ground yet and hasn’t earned billions for the company but that doesn’t mean they are losing millions for it neither nor going negative in shipments or in market share. The same can be said for Surface Pro 3. Let’s see what will happen when Windows 10 comes out if it will make or break for Microsoft.

          1. Windows OS had an even MORE commanding presence in 2007, 2008, etc. It has given up that advantage by not having credible ways to leverage it.

            Not every successful product or company has to get it right on the first try, but Microsoft has seemingly lost ground in its efforts.

            PS: you’re right; they’re not losing millions on their phone/mobile efforts; it’s in the billions.

            I have no reason to want Microsoft to implode — I have a couple of Excel workbooks open at almost any point in time — but they aren’t going to do it by banging away in Windows Phone the way they have been. There will continue to be very few reasons to buy a Windows Phone, for well-off and low-income people alike. And thanks to “network effects” that will discourage devs from trying out new enticements to use the platform, the circumstances will create a self-reinforcing spiral of uncompetitiveness.

            Anybody who looks at the SV culture recognizes instantly that today, you either have a mega-hit or get lost in the din of excitement. Your reference of Microsoft’s near-stagnant user base merely underlines how last-century the company has let itself become.

        2. You are speaking too narrowly with this comment, IMHO. MS doesn’t need to beat A or G at their ‘games’. They just need a respectable %. Nokia acquisition may payoff, it is too early to tell. But layoffs were known, PROMISED, in the sale. Doing that was therefore a sign that they were doing exactly what they meant to do, at least about 16k of the jobs, the Nokia ones.
          Enormous ground to get to the % they’ll be happy with but the right strategy gets there in a few years.
          I think leveraging business/executives is a way to sell big, high end phones and differentiate from A, Android and Blackberry too. Buying BB would be a big gain in mobile. A doubling overnight in a way.
          The right strategy is key and they do have cash, as a shareholder I think spending for mobile now is smart.

        3. They are and will continue to be very competitive and they are the undisputed leader in many, many markets. Enterprise is NOT making a switch to MBA. iPhones and iPads are out there just like any other EAS managed device. Mac sales are on the order of somewhere between 4 to 4.5 million per quarter. How many of those are MBA? 50% maybe? SP3 sales could be at or above MBA sales by now. I’ve been designing management and deployment systems for the Enterprise for years on end as a consultant. I’ve helped organizations migrate somewhere around 200,000 XP machines to Windows 7. Some organizations will have a few Macs here or there and some have none. Claiming otherwise is just silly.

      2. Microsoft’s stock prices compared to Apple and Google are an absolute joke. I have no idea what point you’re trying to make here.

        1. MSFT has a 397 Billion market cap compared to 367 for GOOG. MSFT is up around 30% over the last year while GOOG is down a few percent. That’s some solid performance from Microsoft stock with great earnings to match. If there is a joke I must have missed it.

          1. You know those numbers have absolutely no meaning relative to each other? Example BRK.A. 225,835.

    1. In stock market cap Microsoft surpassed Google a few weeks ago. The gap is up to $30billion+ in that short time. Microsoft search revenue is growing, and they are increasingly dominant in cloud environments, with over a dozen different $billion businesses.
      They surpass Apple and Google in all the various businesses in which those 2 can’t compete. I’m not saying they are nothing or minimizing G and A.
      But Microsoft surpass both daily, billions of times.

  8. The one other thing that i really noticed after switching away from the lumia phone was their settings menu is a jumbled mess. Everything else, you nailed.

  9. 1. I’ll just call this wrong, as it’s opinion. The Lumia 920 released as a Galaxy S III competitor, and beat it, for the most part. It came with double the storage, a less-bulky OS (less storage eaten by bloatware apps/features), it carried the same SoC (CPU/GPU/RAM), the camera optics were vastly superior (thanks mostly to the OIS), and it carried wireless charging (and came with a free wireless charger at the start). Basically, it took everything Samsung’s hardware did, improve upon it (save the microSD support and removable battery), and it sold for less than the S III. Now, there isn’t something out there NOW to compete like that, but saying that there never was is incorrect.

    2. The marketing hasn’t been bad. I’d say that showing off Cortana vs. Siri in commercials did a fine job of explaining what makes Cortana unique. Lumia devices have long carried superior optics/camera tech, and that’s another notch in the “what makes WP unique” marketing push. Things like wireless charging are also present, along with live tiles and superior organization (opinion) that is clear from the time you see the device.

    3. I hate this suggestion SO MUCH. What is Microsoft to do? They’ve taken the “make it ourselves route” with Facebook, and when they tried it with YouTube, Google got super-petty, sent a cease & desist letter to Microsoft, and refused to make an app themselves (and not because of market share, because they don’t want anyone to leave Android). Microsoft has likely thrown a LOOOT of money at developers to get apps out there, and they can only do that so much before you’re in a position where you’ve spent so much on outside app development (which won’t bring in ad income and such) that the whole division will be a massive money sink for a long time (if not permanently). Offer a suggestion that Microsoft hasn’t tried.
    It’s in the developers’ courts now. They’re refusing to publish stuff in a timely manner, and Microsoft can only shovel so much money annually into the platform before it becomes something so unprofitable that they cancel the project. Maybe Windows 10 will give us a proper app store merger that will make app development more palatable for developers (since PC Windows has so many more users than Windows Phone), but Windows Phone 8.1 is basically stuck where it is because Microsoft won’t release a high-end device with the OS on it now, and developers KNOW that Windows 10 is on the horizon, making it almost pointless to put resources into an OS that will see a major overhaul in 3-6 months.

    Sadly, this is the fate of Windows Phone…again: Start it, get something going, restart. They did it with WP7, and now 8.1 is getting the same treatment. Maybe 10 puts them in a stable state with it tied to the PC-based version of Windows, and maybe they get game streaming from the Xbox to Windows 10 devices, and those things help it gain ground. However, it’s not going to be something we see improved upon until the next iteration of the OS, and it’s made Microsoft look like a rudderless ship for the past 6 months or so.

    The best way I think Microsoft could get Windows Phone out there: Get the game streaming from Xbox to Windows 10 working for this initial launch. Give away a Lumia 540 (announced with W10, of course) with every Xbox One purchase, and have a free Lumia giveaway for Windows PC purchase, with tiered offerings (like a Lumia 540 for budget laptop/hybrid purchases and a Lumia 840/940 for high-end purchases or something). They would do well to go that route, because it would force the new OS onto people AND force Windows Phones into peoples’ hands. However, it’s unclear if they’d eat that kind of money, and given how they skimped on the Lumia 830’s internals, they probably wouldn’t do it.

    1. Here’s a suggestion for Microsoft: Make better friends with carriers. From what I’ve heard, representatives in the stores of Verizon, T-Mobile, and even carriers from other countries are actively dissuading potential buyers from buying windows phones. If Microsoft wants to sell more of their phones, they need to somehow get representatives to actively promote their phones, rather than letting them do the opposite.

      1. 1. It was allegedly Verizon who made a huge mess of the Kin launch (just as a carrier example, though phones were junk).

        2. Microsoft can’t MAKE sales reps like the phones. When they grow up on an ecosystem like iOS or Android, and are mostly unknowledgeable about technology, it’s hard for Microsoft to educate them when they’re not running the business.

        All Microsoft could MAYBE do is offer external payment for sales, and I’m not even sure how they could pull that off, unless they convinced carriers to provide them with detailed, private sales figures from employees to offer bonuses. Basically, you’d think that the money carrier shell out to get the 920, 1020, 1520, and Icon as exclusive devices would be enough incentive to train their employees, yet when I went to get my 920, the guy who sold me it openly admitted I probably knew more about Windows Phone than he did (which was correct).

        Carriers reps really aren’t much different than general consumers, IMO. If they don’t like the WP devices, it’s going to take financial incentives to get them to do something other than trash/blow off customers who ask about Windows Phone. Like I said, I don’t know how Microsoft could fix that from the outside, unless they got in-bed with a single carrier (likely AT&T) and made them the exclusive U.S. Windows Phone carrier, allowing them to tightly integrate with the sales team to provide financial sales incentives (as I doubt every major carrier would be big on open sharing of sales numbers with a company working with rivals).

        1. I don’t think you understand how carriers work. They don’t pay for exclusives generally, they demand it from weak OEMs. Carrier staff don’t push their faves, they push what they are told, paid or incented to push. That is why Samsung spends $14Bn in carrier incentives. They pay to play. MS aren’t playing the big boy games (yet).

          The very few WP fans here all have former flagship phones which have sold relatively few. Most users have 52x which doesn’t have a good camera, can’t video chat and lacks most of the features most fans harp on about. I have a 925 and it’s decent but the whole experience and ecosystem is inferior to the competition. App for App, most are worse and most critically WP offers no reason to switch out of ecosystems already invested in. MS missed the window when Apple’s cloud services were terrible and very few will move off Google’s.

          MS is in a real pickle and delusional fans won’t change it. Only massive spending in all dimensions will give MS a chance (devices, carriers, apps). 10’a of billions a year right now. That is potential game changing money even for MS.

          The other thing the apologists need to remember is that real business is not Office nor windows. It is increasingly web access to real enterprise apps CRM, HR, ERP, SCM etc. iPads and iPhones work just dandy for these real work apps. Plus Office is available everywhere so WP gets no benefit there any more.

          1. I don’t think that any ecosystem offers incentive to switch, once you’re invested. While I might love Windows Phone, it’s hard (if not impossible) to justify throwing hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars at app re-purchases to switch to new OS. Personally, I was on Android, and I hated it, so I left. No number of apps could make up for bloatware, a need to root the device to make it semi-clean in performance, a generally ugly UI (opinion), and inconsistent (read: BAD) update support from HTC.

            Now, I was mostly with you, until the last two paragraphs. The Office availability on Android and iOS is dependent on an Office 365 subscription, which is $100/year. Office on Windows Phone is 100% free, so on my 920, I’ve got Office without that added fee (no need for Office 365 on my front). There’s a monetary requirement on competing platforms that doesn’t exist on Windows Phone.

            The real thing that loses me is this idea that Microsoft should literally start spending an entire quarter’s worth of revenue and probably a year’s worth of profits to get Windows Phone going. To be honest, even if it turned out optimistically, I’d imagine Microsoft would need SO LONG to overcome that spending to get WP to profitability that their smartphone business endeavors would have died as society moved to the next piece of compelling tech. They’d probably do better financially to just ride out smartphones in a distant third (5-10% marketshare at peak), while investing into future tech instead.

            Anyway, I don’t think that this idea of tens of billions of dollars is necessary, or even intelligent. I guess it depends on Microsoft’s endgame here–do they want to be profitable, or do they want to be a sexy name? As the trends from flip phones to smartphones and PCs to tablets and hybrids shows us, being the latter (looking at you, Motorola, Nokia, and Blackberry) doesn’t give you anything to build on with the next tech. if tens of billions of dollars is the price tag to become sexy in the smartphone space, we’re so far into the smartphone fad of society that the spending and time needed to pull that off would probably leave Microsoft in a position to get left behind by the next, sexy product.

          2. I’m not sure ecosystem investment is that high. Most people spend less than $50 on apps. Skills and familiarity are more of a hurdle.

        2. Uh, no. Kin wasn’t Verizon’s fault. It was all on Microsoft. They destroyed Danger’s database, lost all the user’s data, and pulled the plug on the project in a matter of weeks. They caused Verizon to lose A LOT of money. And now, payback’s a bitch. I’m not saying it’s right, but Microsoft can no longer bully anyone. We have alternatives now.

          1. At the same time, it was explained that Verizon took what was a feature phone and threw it under the smartphone data plan, thus making it more expensive than its technological competition, while simultaneously making it less-capable than its financial competition. They stuck the Kin in a market where it was truly incapable of catching on or succeeding (not that I cared, as I found it a moronic device from the get-go).

            Microsoft’s poor management of stuff doesn’t really matter, in that instance. To say they cost Verizon money when Verizon’s pricing murdered the phone as well as any database mistakes is to take the blame for both companies and attach it to just one.

          2. No, Matt Bencke set the terms for the pricing off the data plans. As I mentioned earlier, this was when Microsoft had the leverage to dictate such things. They don’t anymore. Hence Verizon’s absolute contempt for Windows Phone. They will never trust Microsoft again.

          3. You honestly think that Microsoft went to Verizon and told them, “put this on the most expensive data plan you can,” when that’s where VERIZON makes its money (Microsoft gets it from device sales)? That makes no sense. I mean, unless they were looking for a chance to murder the Kin, and saw pricing as a good opportunity, I don’t see what Microsoft would gain from dictating a high-end data plan for a low-end phone.

          4. Fer sure, if Microsoft got a raw deal from Verizon, there were 3 other major carriers they could’ve gone to. I don’t suppose the VZ deal was great, but that was VZ giving Microsoft exactly what the fiasco was worth, maybe being a bit generous, even.

  10. MSFT should simply differentiate by closely tying WP to O365 and Surface in the business market. With integrated Lync/Skype for Business and Outlook, there is real value here. The enterprise has embraced byod, and if MSFT is willing to hitch WP to the enterprise they have a chance at being a true 3rd option in the market… The professional consumer + business option.

    1. Nadela/MSFT is taking the approach of getting their Office products on every device now that they’ve launched Office on IOS and Android. This is the battle over Google Docs. Free Windows for devices under 9″ is part of the battle over Android.

      I fear their mobile hardware will only ever be a niche product, excellent or mediocre as it may be. Windows 10 may be a bit of a springboard for MSFT mobile/tablet push and a pooling of resources from the development side for both MSFT and third party developers, all of which is to help address the mystery of how to get more apps on board.

      It’s going to be a slow going still, and I actually can see MSFT and Apple becoming closer in various ways to overcome Google.

    2. The problem is editing word documents is a niche behavior on mobile. Most people just want to play candy crush, take pictures, watch netflix and read. Piggy backing off what Jan said they need to be the best at something. The best camera, a way more powerful CPU/GPU, maybe port a large number of XBox games. Simply put, they need a killer feature with mass appeal.

      1. WATCH NETFLIX HUM I USE A BIG TABLET FOR THEN, EVEN MY 5INCH SEEMS POINTLESS FOR NETFLIX. ops caps soz, but win 10 is allowing xbox games on multi platforms so should be cool.

  11. I’ve been using Windows Phone since the day it debuted and haven’t looked back since. I fully recognize the negatives and positives of the OS, but it feels right to me, so I’m very happy to stick with it. There are two main problems, as I see them:

    1) People think MS is uncool. Nevermind that every grandmother and weird uncle I see uses an iPhone, MS still is “uncool.” One would almost think hipsters would naturally gravitate to a Lumia since the iPhone is so ubiquitous now, but nothing makes sense when it comes to Apple these days.

    2) MS needs to develop something just for WP that is undeniably amazing. The app gap argument is so crazy because no one isn’t switching to WP because they don’t have Candy Crush. MS shouldn’t be chasing after year-old apps like a schoolboy crushing on a classmate, it’s embarrassing. MS needs to develop an app or something that is so novel or advanced that people want to use it, can only use it on WP.

    I love WP and want it to succeed, but unless these two issues are addressed, i don’t see it blowing up in the future.

    1. Candy Crush is just around the corner. Farmville 2: Country Escape just came on WP.

      What many people do not understand, and neither does Microsoft, people care more about their favourite games and being able to carry over than google or productivity apps.

      1. This. This is the the problem with Microsoft. They truly do not understand that “smart” phones are not just phones. They are pocket computers. That’s the reason the Zune HD died (no third party apps.) Hell, even Jobs had to be pressured into allowing third party developers onto iPod/iPhone when he was shown the usage of mobile apps and games. Remember the Windows Phone commercial a few years ago that had some dude at his kid’s baseball game, and the general gist was “The phone that isn’t complicated, and lets you live your life without bothering you,” or something. Think about that. If that was the phone someone really wanted, they would buy a dumb flip phone. There’s a reason you can walk into any nail salon, and every single woman in one of those chairs has her nose in her phone. It’s amazing that it took so long for Microsoft to understand this.

    2. I respect your willingness to hang in there with WinPhones. I couldn’t do it. Nearly every time I read about a new app on TechCrunch or The Verge it’s an app being built for iOS and then eventually Android.

      There’s almost never any mention of the app appearing on Windows Phone and I suspect it never happens. Meanwhile the App Store continues to be a haven for developers where apps are either timed or permanent exclusives.

      You say Microsoft needs to build an app that’s worthy of being a device pusher. I have no doubt Microsoft is and has been working on that but it’s been nearly 5 years since WinPhone debuted (in 2010). If it was possible it would’ve happened already.

      Today they seem more committed in making their native apps better on iOS and Android than on their own hardware. I know I keep saying that but it’s extremely important because if the best of Microsoft can be had on other platforms than what incentive does anyone have to invest in Microsoft’s hardware?

      1. maybe you should also check Windows Central other than the two websites you checked if you wanna read windows phone or any Microsoft news. the verge is known for being an apple-centric website 😉

        1. Yep, WPCentral carries water for Microsoft very well. If I didn’t know any better, I’d think they funded it completely. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

          1. I find using a win phone the best way to see. and I love mine, ill not be going back to iPhone for a long long time. android isn’t a option lol.

      2. I’m not that much of an app user, I definitely have a few downloaded, but I mostly use my phone for work stuff. With that being said, I do have games and stuff, but apps aren’t dealbreakers for me. If they were, I’m sure I’d be using an iPhone, which has the best app selection/experience.

        Also, I’m not looking for MS to develop a killer app, I want them to develop a killer (something). I think that something would probably be a device, not an app. They need to pioneer something, not just make their version of something 6-9 months after Apple. I know they’ll never make the Courier, but something revolutionary like that.

        Maybe it’ll never happen. For now, WP works for me.

        1. I have to say apps are important to me, luckly the win phone 8.1 had all the ones I use, really isn’t a problem, is 21 games enough for me on my phone hum, I think so.

      3. “I respect your willingness to hang in there with WinPhones. I couldn’t do it. Nearly every time I read about a new app on TechCrunch or The Verge it’s an app being built for iOS and then eventually Android.”
        You poor soul, what you must have endured on your Macs in the past…

  12. Microsoft has enough cash to burn. They can go after markets in Africa and Asia where cheap but decent quality cell phones would be attractive. Windows PC is the standard in those regions of the world already. Microsoft may not make much money but it will find a market for its product and increase share. Most Android phone makers are going to be running on thin margin in the long race to the bottom. It will become like the laptop market where margin had become very low. And Microsoft can see where else it can enter and burn more cash. May be it can go after Amazon and eBay. Just suggesting.

    1. I doubt any stockholder wants to hear the words “burn cash” because that’s their money they’re burning too. Any strategy that says, “throw money at it” will eventually find its end.

      I also find your rationale to be a contradiction in logic. You say Microsoft can go after cheap phones in presumably low income markets that can’t afford flagship devices like an iPhone or Galaxy yet at the same time cite Android handset makers running on thin margins in a race to the bottom. So Microsoft’s race to the bottom with cheap phones isn’t the same as Android manufacturers doing the same thing? I’m confused.

      You have to also keep in mind that revenues aren’t generated by just selling hardware, it’s about getting that consumer to keep spending long after they’ve purchased the device.

      If Gillette sold one razor and blade set that lasted forever you’d never buy another pack of blades. It’s also why HP will basically give you a printer with a purchase of a computer because they’ll make 10x that amount in one year from you constantly buying ink cartridges.

      The point is to sell the hardware almost at a loss then make up for it aftermarket sales. No different than Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo selling hardware at a loss so they can make up for it in game sales.

      As for buying Amazon or eBay, I highly doubt either company succumbing to a bid to be bought out. Besides, Microsoft’s already been accused of monopolistic business tactics. I doubt they’d want to revisit that chapter in the company’s storied history.

    2. Um, sure they *CAN* go after extremely-low-income markets, but to what end? Many users can barely afford minimal voice+SMS, and Microsoft will be competing for 0¢ of profit with the lowest-quality Androids.

      Even if they sell many millions of phones, it’ll provide essentially no basis for a broader business that’ll please shareholders who are looking for growth (of profits).

      Their existing deal with Nokia hasn’t allowed them to hold the dumbphone business at all well, as the Nokia brand will be reasserted by Nokia itself, on tablets. Microsoft will have to switch quickly to the Lumia or WinPhone brand name…they may as well sell the full brand naming rights back to Finland.

      Microsoft needs a beachhead in developed markets, one that they can use to reassert their position in the broad marketplace. WinPhone is NOT that beachhead.

  13. I think the real problem is the GUI. I like how everything works, but it’s really unappealing. Everything about it is really still behind other phone is.

      1. I don’t think anyone should listen to someone who doesn’t understand that comments can be edited for typos or clarity. 😉

  14. Stupid article by someone that clearly hasn’t really used a WP. What does having a flagship phone every year have anything to do with success? WP works on devices low end and high end and preforms the same and looks the same. That’s how MS wanted it and they nailed it. I use a 1020 and being a WP user since WP 7 and I can say that it is the best platform. How does it differ in other mobile OS’s the author asks… well ask the fucking users…. and how about the smoked by Windows Phone things they did a couple years back showing everyone that WP does things faster. Thus differing itself from the others. Another ignorant tech guy spouting his useless opinions. I personally switched over 20 people to WP because my friends around me saw how awesome it was just by me using it.

    1. There need to be quality replacements for people, new classes to enter, make a phone worth upgrading to from a good low end phone. They need to be in all countries and all networks.
      That requires quite a few new phones a year around the world. 1 nice WP on T-mobile in 3 years. If you need a 5.5″+ phone you have to be on AT&T. And on and on. There is a real need. Executives need new, neat, expensive phones for business. Make a few of those a year in limited numbers. All together it would make a difference.

  15. All I can say is that I love my 920. And yes, that’s a 2 year old phone that still runs great.

    You mention lack of flagships, and yet the year old 1520 still outclasses the latest iPhone Plus in every measurement.

    The often repeated App Gap is much less of an issue today, and the focus on the volume based low end is actually what will end up driving more apps to the platform as the phones continue to sell in the 10’s millions.

    Likewise, corporations are starting to value the ease of cross development which will only expand in Windows 10, not to mention Windows Phone 8 being the only unhacked mobile platform which brings exceptional security to the enterprise.

        1. I use the 1020, my wife uses the 1520. Her phone is an amazing device that turns heads everywhere she goes. Its simple to use and creates concert-arena photos wherein every head in the venue can be counted individually. (My 1020 does even better, but those heads are much easier to count on her much larger screen.)

          I’ve sold my boss on the 1020 and my wife is proselytizing the hell out of the folks she works with.

          The wife and I both traded up from an iPhone 4s. Why more people aren’t using these Lumias is beyond us.

          1. Agreed… WP is far superior to Android, and at worst… on par with iOS. The reason people buy Apple is the ‘social’ and ‘bling’ factors. My wife is always admiring my 1520, but just cant make the switch from her iPhone. The other problem is just the amount of effort required to manage content which might be mostly residing on iTunes. I am one who will make the effort to do what needs to be done in order to have our family iTunes content available on my 1520, but my wife and kids will never do it. Just not something they have enough passion for to make the effort. I am not even saying its difficult, but its certainly not something as smooth as a native iTunes experience, and that’s obviously on purpose. I actually admire the work Apple has done on the iOS platform. Its sophisticated, elegant and intuitive. My head scratching begins when I look at Android. For grins, I bought a Galaxy Tab 3. Its the most unintuitive, clunky, uninspiring and simply ugly OS I’ve worked on. Its utilitarian at best. It actually reminds me of a bad version of WindowsMobile from before the WP7 launch. Microsoft has its work cut out for it, but I completely agree that while it will be important to keep the low end units flooding the market… as the young and financially challenged of today become the older and richer of tomorrow… Its critically important to make sure the flagship phones keep coming. Its a crime the 1520 has not seen a 1530 or some such number come along as a successor.

          2. yup, I agree. many apple users buy apple for the sake of the “social” factor. most WP users are the critical thinkers. why? because if they’re not, they would’ve gone to IOS because of the “cool” factor or Android for the 1 million apps that half of it is a copy of the other.

          3. Horse pucky.

            For about *30* years we’ve seen Microsoft / establishment partisans belittle mice, graphical UI’s, bit-mapped screens, laser printing, on and on, largely because Big Blue and Redmond had bupkis in those features. But once Anybody But Apple did them, they were deemed OK.

            IT is capable of critical thinking but exhibits herd mentality as much as any other field. There’s no counter to the fact that it took Microsoft a half decade to respond to iPhones, that early releases such as the EOL’d-before-it-was-released WP7 were insults to their loyal customers, and that capability, security, predictability, interoperability, ecosystem and availability remain distinctly second-class.

            Go ahead and believe that hundreds of millions of people are unthinking idiots, but it won’t make WinPhones any better and it won’t help you convince the feebs that your genius is trustworthy.

            Microsoft is, having been caught unawares of how good a mobile computer could be, caught in a B-school 101 network effect. Childish name-calling and tribal loyalty can’t undo it; only serious attention to real innovations—about which, you don’t seem to understand the guru Christenson’s or the acolyte @Asymco’s definitions—will get them back in contention.

            Which they decidedly are NOT today, your chest-thumping notwithstanding.

          4. iphones are great but sorry so are windows phones and if your not aware of this all companies are the same, profit driven.. Do you realize that Microsoft changed the world with windows, same could be said about iPhone. Either way as good as iPhone is it has lost its lure to a lot of people well thatys largely do to the competition that now exists, As a iphonre user I have seen them make some marvelous changes but they are going messier and messier every year, I couldn’t give ios to a non smart user and see them use it straight away like thos6,7 days. It just isn’t elegent anymore. Does it work well, yes, is the whole product range well intergrated, yes but its simply not enough, People will start to change now, and the proof of that is just around the corner. I totally agree the whole fiasco of win 7 hurt then and was discussing but hey you had windows 98, win 2000 win xpall for like a decade that’s like 10 pounds a year that’s pretty decent. Now they are giving win 10 away with win 7,8, 8.1 users that’s a pretty big step to say sorry for win 7. I for one woud rather have a third eco system because if we don’t apple will raise their prices and so will android. Competition = cheaper products. just hope Microsoft can get tin because apple certainly gets a lot from abroad in the child labor sector.(all company’s are after the bottom line.) And when they release a new phone factory staF SLEEP MAKE LOL.

          5. I didn’t say Windows Phone wasn’t a great platform. Heck, the best of these little gizmos have more compute power, more pixels etc than laptops had 5 yrs ago.

            I simply said that Microsoft’s offering was second rate.

            No better proof of it than this week’s announcements. Windows RT, a major tablet platform for them just a year ago, is unceremoniously EOLed. They expressed the “goal”—rather different than a promise—that current phones will be upgraded to Win10.

            Put yourself in the position of Delta airlines, who announced 2(?) years ago that they were equipping their pilots with Surface RTs for maps etc, such as United and AA had done with iPads. Except that their vendor hadn’t completed the conversion of their XP or iOS versions to RT, when I last looked. So Delta is sitting on 10,000 or so tablets that may never get v1.0 of the transition from those 40 lb briefcases.

            This is but one example of what should have been a Microsoft strength but is in fact a fiasco. Thanks to Microsoft’s failure to have a competitive offering, they are cutting their losses and reminding the customers that yes, you CAN get fired for buying Microsoft.

            A few million dollars down the drain. All for this mostly wonderful capability that amazingly is not the industrial-strength solution that old-timers are used to from Redmond. Microsoft is not used to competing this way—where they aren’t the assumed best choice—and they are doing badly.

            PS: The choice was Delta’s but the announcement (in 2013, IIRC) was a joint Microsoft/Delta one. Redmond really wanted an anchor tenant for RT and must have made what Delta thought was a sweetheart deal. Bet their CIO has other thoughts today, assuming it’s still the same guy.

          6. Agreed.

            This *is* why:

            1. Windows desktop will continue to remain in flux (dying? stalled? – but definitely won’t grow vs the other OS).

            2. Surface tablet will finally end up getting killed ridding MS of the burden. Or continue to drain money from Microsoft and any company that made a poor decision adopting the Surface (Delta)…. seriously what a ludicrous decision to buy Surface tablets – so they have to pay the price. But aren’t they almost bankrupt? They shouldn’t have (neither company) should waste money on Surface when they don’t have the money to waste.

            3. Windows Phone seeing uptick in entry level market in developing world. Unfortunately Microsoft fails to see it & continues to falsely hope that it can compete against the iPhone & high-end androids. It can’t.

            All 3 points are in reality issues with Microsoft’s management/strategy. Because in reality, Windows Phone OS is absolutely beautiful. It really is. It really is an EXCELLENT platform. I for one agree with @Spec and hope they can be a competitor.

            BUT as long as Microsoft continues to be mismanaged – I just don’t see any possible of surge in adoption. Simply continued steady declines… or very stagnation (with a few quarters of slight growth or sighs of life).

          7. for me the cool factor for apple last happened with the 4s, after that phone I think they lost their mojo particular for such a expensive handset.

          8. well it depends on which os, I find ios8 to be a horrible mess, I miss ios6 to me that’s when the iPhone ruled, but it feels those days are gone now.

          9. yeh totally agree im on the 930 my mother I got her on the 830 both great phones, shes so glad to leave iPhone behind.

      1. That would be my Microsoft Band 😉
        Yours would be your Apple watch, except of course it wouldn’t, as you’d have to charge it each night and they’re not even released… :p

        1. “…as you’d have to charge [the Apple Watch] each night and they’re not even released.”

          Intersting that you know about a product’s battery life when it hasn’t been released, but cute comeback.

          I’ll think about you when I’m unlocking the door to my hotel suite and paying for a latte from my wrist.

      2. ive used the iPhone 6 and I have to say my 930 8.1 does outclass the iPhone 6 to me so I will be sleeping a lot beter knowing that :).

    1. people that use the app gap are idiots or app fianatics, you can go to the phone store and see if your apps are there most people will be plesently surprised, I know I was, Theres some small stuff missing for me but it aint that important to me.

  16. best way for Microsoft to sell their products is by cutting other models. they have so many models that branch out like for example, you already have a 630 yet there is still a 635? a 730 and a 735? at the same time they have so many models per price range that it becomes confusing to the consumers. you have 530 but you also have a 630? the problem is it splits the supposed market for lower end into two models and confuses the consumer on what is the real low-end phone between the two.
    my suggestion, create 2 division, the normal size 5″ and the phablet size 6″. then under 5″ create three price range models: low-end (e.g 630), mid-level (e.g 830) and flagship (e.g 930). then under 6″, create only two price range models: mid-level (e.g 1330) and flagship (e.g 1530). with regards to the issue of 1020 having the best camera technology (its main and only best feature), I guess its better if they integrate its technology with 930 (940 moving forward) or 1530 with the two being the flagships.

  17. What a boring read! Obvious and colored. Repetitive and…. bahhhh.

    Anyone can say this to any platform or product. Make a product with better specs, get it to most consumers and give them more opportunities? Really!????

    I could say that about Chrome books, Kindle, Tv’s, shoes….. Etc.

  18. Microsoft and Google need to be friendly in the best interests of users. I think MS should buy up GOOG stock to the point where they either gain enough say to force apps like YouTube onto the WP ecosystem or if need be as ransom. That wouldn’t be as friendly but it would be for the sake of USER friendliness. It would be a BOLD move and probably a wise hedge investment in it’s own right.
    They need to have Pro PHONES. That is the way to get *high-end* phones moving. Deck them out in the mag cases call them Surface Pro Phones give them the 41MP camera, decent 5.5″ screen, snap-app capabilities, huge battery and all the goodness from the 920, 1520 and my personal fave 1020.
    A level below would be a Lumia Pro. Then ‘regular’ flagship phones replacing the Icon and 930. This could even be a way to sell those old Surface mini’s, put a phone chip in there and sell them as giant, high end executive Windows phones, another Surface Pro, the SP Mini Phone? Samsung had a good thing with the 3-4 different versions of high-end phones (made of crap plastic, with a crap skin on a sad OS… but I digest).
    They shouldn’t have to make/sell tens of millions of them to make a point and show that the demand is there on the high-end too. The low end is covered, saturated actually. Make products for the several millions of us that bought Windows phones 2+ years ago everywhere! How hard is that to figure out? Apple and Samsung are literally showing you how that’s done MS how are you missing that?
    And I am a Massive MS fan/frustrated defender but this issue is shocking to me. Make enough phones to replace the ones you sold to happy customers. Sell them well. Open small stores and saturate the market, get publicity, BUY it; you have to buy this market share you lost.
    Do you think they’ll get it if we picket the Redmond campus? 😉
    I only hope the supposed upcoming flagships to go with Windows 10 exist and aren’t just lame updates of current phones. We need neat new features that reach parity with the competition in every way, app gap not withstanding.
    So, ~$18 billion on Google to force/initiate the facilitation of relevant Google properties to have windows phone apps.
    Another few billion in prize money(?) to the fastest devs to get big companies, even Fortune 500, to get feature parity apps on WP ASAP. The best/quickest get tens of million free money. People would fall over themselves to get that cash.
    It’s better than buying back stock.
    It could actually work. And it will not happen.
    From my SP3, next to my ragged 1020…. I need a fix.
    Thanks for letting me vent.

  19. I think Microsoft is better off concentrating its efforts and resources on the next revolutionary device. Play in the cross-platform arena to stay relevant in smartphones and keep up with the tech but focus on figuring out the next big thing. And it ain’t Surface.

    1. Well, the problem is Microsoft has never innovated anything. They’ve always copied already successful products, and threw their considerable monetary weight around to try to dominate that market. It just doesn’t work anymore. The Zune, the Kin, and now Windows Phone has been a rude awakening for them. Windows and Office is very lucrative now, but you can’t keep using them to bankroll failure after failure in other markets.

  20. I’ve been a happy Windows Phone user since March. That was when my iPhone 4s contract expired and I could get a phone designed for something other than teenage girls and hipster-wannabes.

    My Lumia 1020 never fails to impress other phone users (just last night a fellow father at a band concert, after seeing my pictures vs. his own, eagerly asked me to email him my shots.) The platform is stable, never locks ups or hiccups and serves all my possible needs.

    The only “issue” is a dearth of the quick load, quick play, quick delete apps so popular with the i/Crowd. And that’s not really an issue at all.

  21. ►No company has the flagship to kill iPhone’s marketing charm. But when it comes to technical specs there are plenty out there. iPhone6 specs is a 2 year old combination of most of the leading handset making company’s flagships.LOL
    Have you ever heard of Lumia930? Or 1020? Are these not flagships? Oh yes, sorry it does not come with an overpriced price tag and outdated specs. So you may not call them as ‘flagships’.

    The truth is you can’t really say which phone is better when you are comparing two different platforms. But don’t tell WP does not have flagships.

    Talking about the app gap, ask any WP user how many of them use official apps?
    ►We have superior quality third party apps created by developers like Rudy Huyn. You won’t find many features we have in 6tag, in iOS or Android’s ‘official’ Instagram app(We can post an uncropped 16:9 OR 4:3 or any other aspect ratio photo along with the usual 1:1s ).
    ►myTube and MetroTube has better capabilities than the so called ‘official’ youtube apps. I don’t see any app gaps anymore. These are just few examples. And these are not web wrap apps. These are applications with unique options which you won’t find in any other platforms.

    ►Only threat to WP is MSFT itself. They are too kind and they are creating MSFT apps for other platforms. They are forgetting the fact that they should at least keep something exclusive only to WP.

    1. “myTube and MetroTube has better capabilities than the so called ‘official’ youtube apps.”

      Wow, never thought I’d hear an argument that official apps are a bad thing but here’s where your thesis falls short: on iOS and Android you have a choice of the official apps and third-party apps. Same goes for Instagram and many other apps that still don’t have official versions on Windows Phone.

      There’s also the fact that when a new app debuts it usually shows up in the App Store first, Android second and often times on Windows Phone never.

      I applaud your dedication to the platform. Obviously there’s a some sort of fan base. But what’s incredibly surprising about Microsoft is the position they find themselves in compared to where they were. They still dominate desktops but the future is in mobile where they’re unpopular and weak.

      1. What’s funny to me is how the software/app conversation tables have turned. Back in the day it was Windows users talking about how much more vibrant and robust the software selection was over Apple offerings. Now it is the Windows users making the same arguments Apple users once made. The more things change, the more they stay the same.


        1. Exactly!! Who would’ve ever thought that fans of Microsoft would be defending their lack of software options as a positive?!! That homegrown solutions are better than official versions?! Amazing.

          Ten bucks says these were the same people that slammed the iPad for not offering a bonafide and official productivity suite like MS Word.

          1. Thank goodness you made that clear. There was no way anyone other than initiates would have known what I was talking about. Crisis averted.


      2. ►//Wow, never thought I’d hear an argument that official apps are a bad thing//

        Fortunately or unfortunately, that is the case in WP.

        ►//on iOS and Android you have a choice of the official apps and
        third-party apps. Same goes for Instagram and many other apps that still
        don’t have official versions on Windows Phone.//

        Let me tell you how you are wrong.When was the last time you use WP?
        We obviously have the so called official version of Instagram. It is called Instagram beta. It is a half boiled potato. Useless app comparing to 6tag. That’s Instagram’s fault that they are not updating. And yes 6tag is an exclusive app for WP, and it doesn’t exist in iOS or Android. Try using it once, and you will never look back. ‘Official’ Youtube app of WP was shot down by google it self because they were too selfish. That is why developers did an awesome job by making MetroTube and myTube. They still are better than Google’s own version in Android.Trust me.

        ►//There’s also the fact that when a new app debuts it usually shows up in
        the App Store first, Android second and often times on Windows Phone

        Undoubtedly, you are absolutely correct. But then again which are these apps you are talking about? There are really good exclusive apps which exists only on WP too. You might’ve never heard of it because you were looking at the wrong place my friend.
        Try reading

        ►//I applaud your dedication to the platform. Obviously there’s a some sort
        of fan base. But what’s incredibly surprising about Microsoft is the
        position they find themselves in compared to where they were. They still
        dominate desktops but the future is in mobile where they’re unpopular
        and weak.//

        I was not really a fan until i started using the platform. I came to WP because of Nokia and not because of Microsoft. If MS is ‘unpopular’ and ‘weak’ that is because people still blindly believe the articles which are written by iFans and Android fans. With all due respect to those platforms, WP 8.1 is one amazing OS. One will never realize it until they use it. But if you are someone who is already using Android then using WP might be a problem for you because WP don’t depend on Google services. You can use native mail app or Metro mail to connect Gmail. There are third party apps for everything, but just like in Android, you should be careful about which one is best. If there are 1000 fake apps in Android for an official app, then in WP it might be 40.

        Like i told earlier only thing worries me is MSFT’s actions. They are too generous when it comes to other platforms. They shouldn’t be.

        Once again, stop reading Verge for WP news. Start reading

        1. “If there are 1000 fake apps in Android for an official app, then in WP it might be 40.”

          Quality is always a more novel and noble approach than quality but when an OS is reliant on workarounds and hacks it’s not very encouraging.

          Windows Phone is the proverbial Linux: small but dedicated group of users using a very powerful and flexible platform with very little support or interest amongst the gamut of developers.

          You say Microsoft is too generous and you might be right but they can’t afford to not make software for the competition and this point they’ve basically played their last hand with MS Office coming to iOS and Android.

          MS Office is arguably the only card they had under their sleeve as there’s nothing else in their portfolio that makes WinPhone a standout product. I suppose Cortana is a standout service but that feature alone won’t be enough for most any iOS or Android owner to jump ship for.

          Lastly, the consistent theme to your argument, however, is that for all of WinPhone’s achievements there’s still a lot to be desired and that Microsoft is their own worst enemy right now. Not a very compelling or resolute message if you’re trying to convert people to Microsoft’s mobile revolution.

          1. I told this earlier, I’m not a die-hard fan of WP and I’m not trying to convert anyone. But i hate the fact that people sit and whine about the so called app-gap rather than thinking about the workarounds available. I’m someone who learned to send an e-mail from Nokia 1100 once in an emergency situation. So rather thinking about the unavailability and get depressed , i would start thinking about the other options available.

            The whole point I’m trying to tell you here is, WP is not that bad OS like many so-called tech experts states. But then different people have different choices. But 99% of the articles about WP OS is misleading the common people. And that is not fair. I’ve read a stupid writer calling myTube and MetroTube ‘fake apps’ when it is created by reputed developers. They are not even some web wrap apps available in Android. ‘Reputed’ sites like GSMArena, Techcrunch, and Verge are surprisingly anti-windowsphone sites. I don’t know why. They never post about any app news or OS update news related to windowsphone!!

          2. So you must have appreciated the author’s opening statements, such as:

            “My reasons for writing a report about Windows Phone are simple: so much of the coverage of the platform simply writes it off as a hopeless case, oversimplifying and exaggerating the problems without recognizing there is growth there and it’s so strategically important to Microsoft at this point that the company will continue to invest. As such, the purpose of my report is not to put another nail in Windows Phone’s coffin, but to offer a nuanced analysis of what ails the platform and what Microsoft can do to make it better.”


          3. LOL! Before this becomes a loop, let me make it clear. If your question is ‘do i agree with the author?’ , then my answer is : I agree with him partially.

    2. “iPhone6 specs is a 2 year old combination of most of the leading handset making company’s flagships.”

      Really? Have you even read a benchmark? In single threaded performance (most computing tasks) the two fastest chips on the market are the A8 and then A7. Also, IPhone 6 and 6 Plus have won every camera review I’ve seen. Then they have by far the best developer support, which is IMO a much bigger deal than specs.
      To chalk it all up to Apple marketing deceiving customers is naive.

      1. “IPhone 6 and 6 Plus have won every camera review I’ve seen. ”
        In how many of those ‘reviews’ Lumia1020 was a competitor?
        If the iPhone 6 still won the review, then I really doubt about the authenticity of those camera reviews.

      2. Naïve? That, or disingenuous.

        But as the many complaints about Lumias missing show, specs per se mean almost nothing…a balanced, robust ecosystem with upgrade path and security and promise of compatibility, etc is closer to what people buy these days.

        (Just as you seldom see horsepower, G’s of skid pad cornering, or inches of hip room advertised for cars. Every one of those contribute to driving experience, but even for hardcore racers, none of them tell you very much about it.)

        Let people who need to cling to a notion of superiority have their compensation, and don’t be confused about how isolated specs will drive the market.

      3. “IPhone 6 and 6 Plus have won every camera review I’ve seen.”
        LOL, Really ??!!!
        Have you ever read a single authentic camera review??!
        Article 1:
        Article 2:
        Article 3 :
        How many dozen articles you need to prove that iPhone6 is not the best camera out there? Just google it. iPhone camera is also good. But not the best my friend.

        “Have you even read a benchmark? In single threaded performance (most
        computing tasks) the two fastest chips on the market are the A8 and then
        I thought you were right at first because i was not really a knowledgeable person when it comes to benchmarks. But after a brief study i realised benchmarks varies all the time and depends on how you are testing it and you can’t really trust them. Below is a link which shows Lumia phones way ahead of Apple’s iPhone. Later on Apple questioned the site and they took the results down. And when it came back, ta da.. iPhone tops all. LOL. Its funny. So my friend, i don’t think we can trust anyone when it comes to benchmarks.

        And my argument about 2 year old iPhone specs
        I think many companies including Microsoft, Apple and google are stopping us consumers to have the advanced technology by showing the lesser valued things as some kind of premium sh*t.(Look how many lesser known companies are easily providing quality higher spec phones in lower prices) Its all just marketing and brainwashing my friend. Never trust anyone.

        1. The 1020 is more camera than phone and almost twice as thick with a monster sensor which captures huge 20 megapixel shots and yet they are close competitors I find that impressive.
          Lets talk benchmarks, you provided one suspect bench mark, here is one HIGHLY reputable one
          You claim 2 year old spec, but that just does not hold up when you acknowledge that the IPhone has one of the very best cameras on the market and dominates benchmarks. Where is the terrible camera (even for 2012) on the feature list for the Nexus 4? How many people used mobile payments on the nexus 4 in 2012, because Apple managed to make a system that saw more usage the first day than Google Wallet over the 3 years.
          Speeds and feeds don’t matter. The only numbers that matter are user satisfaction. That is why people who buy IPhones tend to stick with them (no links needed). That is why they sell millions of them. Don’t let your sad bias lead you to naive simplistic logic that all IPhone users were tricked into buying them by marketing magic. There are some brilliant people using the device, they can’t all have been tricked.

          1. “The 1020 is more camera than phone”
            I thought we were discussing camera phones!! 0_o

            “you acknowledge that the IPhone has one of the very best cameras”
            I never told iPhone has one of the ‘best’ cameras. I told it’s good and that’s it. It’s not even one of the best.

            “I find that impressive. ”
            And so you also acknowledge that those ‘camera reviews’ you stated in your first comment was wrong? I’m puzzled!

            About the benchmarks, like i said i saw different sites showing
            so many variety of results. We will end up sending each other many links
            which WE think are real. So, no thanks. I don’t think I’m gonna believe
            any of them. 🙁

            “There are some brilliant people using the device, they can’t all have been tricked.”
            *facepalm* (..Silence..)

  22. windows phone 930 with 8.1 sold me, I love it and the os, I think to many people are still under a faulse illusion that apple rules, when it comes to sales yeh apple and android rules, but they really shouldn’t, windows is not only the different phone, the one changing it up but its also a smmoth powerfull experience that’s already in my opinion beating the competition in product type. But with the changes and improvements win 10 offers its gona be hard for people to slate this fantastic phone, I even thinkl that EVEN THOUGH THE APPS ARE NOT AS STRONG AS IPHONE, IT CERTAINLY ISNT FAR OFF, I WASNT MISSING A SINGLE APP APART FROM A COUPLE OF GAMES AND EVEN THEN I ONLY EVER PLAYER 3 AT A TIME ON MY IPHONE. oN MY LUMIA 930 I PLAY ALOT MORE AND HAVE ABOUT 21 GAMES, tHE 5 INCH SCREEN MIGHT BE A REASON FOR THAT. ops cpads soz. I wont ber going back to iPhone, im just not happy with ios8, and I for one am glad to leave, truth is id have left in ios7 into but I don’t like android(personal thing) and I needed a voise assistant, I loved sirri. Not I have cortana not just improved over sirri with more features but I use cortaNA OUTSIDE, EVEN WITH LOW SIGNAL I GET ABOUT 70% SUCESS. With siri wif was awesome but if no wifi she struggled. Im sure siri will catch up with a update but I wont be joining the party now I have Cortina live tiles gestures, cross platform store so my pc will sync well.

  23. As a dog going back to it’s vomit,so does microsoft keeps on investing and spending money on windows phones…i dont know why it still uses windows phone despite of the fact that many users like Android and IOS.Although some of us have an Iphone and some may not, but still many of us can afford low end android phones for sure & this is a fact ! But now-a-days who wants to spend money on windows phones????? It’s always irritating and has App shortage.So why does microsoft ever listen????? it can use Android instead of Windows phone by which many users get attracted because it’s a microsoft mobile.They can increase their shares by utizing google services and paying the amount if necessary…the one positive feature that i can find on windows phones is that the Camera is good when compared to other brands…but still there are some issues such as, the camera does work pretty well on day light images but lacks on low light images !

  24. Microsoft needs to understand that their ugly UI with those tiles will never win the public’s heart! You need to make an AWESOME UI for people to start looking at it….